Here is hj list discussion on the topic of assimilation. Posts included here by: Ray Guggenheim Susan Averbach Moses Asher Gates Roger Eden Harold Black ........................................................................ Subject: assimilation Author: RGuggen575@aol.com at Internet-Mail Date: 10/26/95 1:19 PM Someone said that intermarriage is the result of assimilation rather than one of the causes for it. That's an interesting idea. Could movements like hj also be the result of assimilation? Ray ........................................................................ From saverbach@ortho1.ucsf.eduThu Nov 9 19:29:34 1995 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 13:30:18 WST From: "Averbach, Susan" To: hj@teleport.com, RGuggen575@aol.com Subject: Re: assimilation Yes, I think so, at least for Jews who were raised in a traditional religious community. (For Jews raised in secular communities, this is less true.) When Jews were ghettoized, there was less of a chance of being exposed to the larger culture with its secular influences. The fundamentalist Hasidic communities even today prevent their children from mixing with other people because they fear the secular influence. ........................................................................ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 15:43:25 -0800 From: Moses Asher Gates To: hj@teleport.com Subject: assimilation >Someone said that intermarriage is the result of assimilation rather than one >of the causes for it. That's an interesting idea. Could movements like hj >also be the result of assimilation? >Ray > When looking at members of Humanistic and secular organizations vs. religious Jews, I've found that secularists are much more "out" Jews (unless you compare us to the Orthodox Jews), so I would think that Humanistic Judaism isn't a result of assimilation. But those are only my own personal observations. Anyone else? Moe ........................................................................ From saverbach@ortho1.ucsf.eduThu Nov 9 19:29:34 1995 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 14:23:30 WST From: "Averbach, Susan" To: hj@teleport.com Subject: assimilation answer/question to Moe: I'm not sure what you mean by "out" Jew, but I have found that since becoming more assimilated (I was raised in a fairly religious traditional family--kept kosher, didn't ride on Saturday, etc.) I value being able to socialize with a wide variety of people, some Jewish, many not Jewish. Keeping kosher makes it hard to have meals with people who do not keep kosher. The ideas of Humanistic Judaism include respect for all people. In a traditional religious Jewish community there is the acceptance of the idea of Jews being the chosen people. Jews who are somewhat assimilated or even very assimilated, like us, do not accept the idea of Jewish choseness. By the way, I do not agree with Shoshana Cardin (who gave the keynote address at the Colloquium '95) that the organized Jewish community should not waste its resources trying to attract the assimilated Jew to become affiliated. I, myself, considered myself to be an assimilated Jew for almost 30 years and am ecstatic about finding a place do be Jewish in the Humanistic Jewish community. ........................................................................ >Encoding: 1200 Text >To: hj@teleport.com >Subject: assimilation > I'm not sure what you mean by "out" Jew By "out" Jew I just mean someone that is willing to let the non-Jewish community realize that he/she is a Jew, give opinions as a Jew etc. However, this very well could be the result of assimilation, as in order to be an "out" Jew, a great deal of time around non-Jews is a prerequisite. However, in my experience, many non Humanist Jews are very in the closet, not identifiying themselves as Jews, treating being Jewish as something humorous or as having no import, even in non- personal situations. I suppose I don't know whether or not these people all of these people are religious, but many are. I see CSJO and SHJ as combating assimilation in a practical context, by encouyraging Jewish identity and opinion, but not Jewish exclusion. ........................................................................ From eden@siftac.easynet.co.ukThu Nov 9 19:29:34 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 06:33:12 GMT From: Roger Eden To: hj@teleport.com Subject: Assimilation, religion and intermarriage Here in the UK, most who want to be Jews, are members of a synagogue. This has nothing to do with beleif for most. Membership provides community, ritual, burial etc. There is no non-religious Jewish alternative. Particularly for the young, they are alienated by the absurdities of religion, and the unpalatable views of the Rabbinate. The older generation ignore these issues. Of course many of us feel that we want to be Jews, but we don't say why, beyond the personal, what would we say to a Jew who objects - more tribalism? more ethnic strife? Why bother? Does it matter if we assimilate? For hundreds of years at Passover we say - remember what Amalek did to you - Have we missed the Amalek (and others). I am committed but - What is globally important about the continuation of Jews? Roger Eden. British Community for HJ. e-mail:eden@siftac.easynet.co.uk (Roger Eden) ........................................................................ From hb0001@epfl2.epflbalto.orgThu Nov 9 19:29:34 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 15:11:34 -0400 From: HAROLD BLACK To: hj@teleport.com Subject: Being Jewish I was at the colloquium and the question came up why be Jewish. Every speaker ducked the question except Yaacov Malkin. He probably gave the best talk of all.. When I was a college student many years ago we tried to define being Jewish in a sociology class. It seems the best answer is that a Jew is someone who considers himself Jewish and the rest of the community considers Jewish. There are those who feel dear Jewishness strongly with a great deal of love and affection for it. Others sort of think about it at the edges. In times of crisis for the Jewish community anywhere all Jews tend to become more fervently Jewish. I don't think we can give any practical reasons for being Jewish. If practicality were the only question we would have dropped it long ago. How can we say why we love the woman we love? Same thing for Jewishness. I embrace it like a beautiful woman. Please don't tell my wife. Harold Black, Machar, Washington, DC ........................................................................