From achalom@minerva.cis.yale.eduMon Sep 4 16:00:03 1995 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:59:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam To: Humanistic Judaism Subject: Possible new topic: Judaism v. Humanism (?) It's been pretty quiet out there for a few days, so I thought I'd stir the mix again. While studying for my exams, some of which are on Jewish history, I've been thinking about SHJ and the relationship between ideology and ethnicity. The issue that comes to mind is the balance struck between explicit ideology and cultural heritage in services or ceremonies. At first glance, there appear to be two ways to look at it. 1) "Our philosophy is the most important part of our lives; it determines how we relate to other people, who we think we are, what we do in life, etc. Therefore, it should have primary expression in any endeavour, especially those undertaken by an organization of explicitly like-minded people like a HJ group. Jewish history is OK for context or example, but the philosophy must be clearly stated independant of this, because that is more important." 2) "It is our Jewish history and heritage that give us our philosophy of Humanism, so we must put first things first and focus on history. Our strongest connection is to the Jewish people. In our presentation of Jewish history and tradition, our philosophy will not be discarded; indeed, it will affect how we observe every aspect of that tradition. But explicit philosophy is not essential so long as our expression of Jewishness has those basic assumptions constantly in mind." Of course, if I've learned anything about Jewish discourse, "It's not A or B but somewhere in the middle" (I'm sure you've all heard THAT at one time or another). Perhaps there is a way to mesh the two 50-50. But my feeling is that in the end you need to decide on a primary focus, one or the other. Some groups may focus on Jewish culture, while others express ideology as primary. There is no right or wrong way to do this; I'm just curious as to how other people deal with this issue, or what they think about it. My personal inclination is leaning toward more focus on Jewishness to the lessening of explicit philosophy at all divorced from "context," but fortunately for me I don't have any responsibility yet and don't yet have to deal with the issue in a real-life context. I'll definetely appreciate anyone's input. ...................................................................... From Rzinns@aol.comMon Sep 4 16:00:03 1995 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 23:00:28 -0400 From: Rzinns@aol.com To: hj@teleport.com Subject: Re: Judaism vs. Humanism Hello All - I have problems with the subject. The word "vs." bothers me. I don't see Judaism as opposed to the Humanism. I see them as working hand in hand. Maybe by some my thinking is simplistic, but Humanism and Judaism in the way we have linked them seems to me to be a very good blend. I agree with Al Tauber's feeling that it enables me also to establish a positive Jewish identity. Roz Zinns ...................................................................... From atauber@teleport.comMon Sep 4 16:00:03 1995 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 18:38:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Tauber To: Victorian Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux Cc: hj@teleport.com Subject: Re: Judaism vs Humanism I am relatively new to the study of Jewish history. But here is my contribution to the discussion. 1. Jews invented humanism over a period of 2000 or more years. 2. They built it into the daily life of the Jew. 3. We are all, today, impacted by that programming. To be a Jew is to be Humanistic. It came with mothers milk. 4. My way to study Jewish history, and I value SHJ instruction to do that, is to look for the events that led to the development and programming of Humanism into the Jewish people. . Its my way of establishing a positive Jewish identity. atauber@teleport.COM Public Access User --- Not affiliated with Teleport Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-14400, N81) ...................................................................... From vacab@vicnet.net.auMon Sep 4 16:00:03 1995 Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 10:14:45 +1000 From: Victorian Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux To: hj@teleport.com Subject: Re: Judaism vs Humanism Subject: Judaism vs Humanism Adam [Adam, hj 4/28/95] has written a thought- provoking item about the constantly changing relationship we all have to ethnicity, identity and ideology (at the minimum). He says "perhaps there is a way to mesh the two 50-50", referring to the tension between ideology or philosophy independent of relgion and a 'Jewish-focussed' cultural identity and ceremony. There is no one way, nor is there a 'right' balance for people who have feet in the camps of Judaism/Jewishness/Yahadut and humanism, especially religious humanism, on the other hand. Why? Affiliation to Judaism remains in my opinion, a highly demanding, particularistic intellectual orientation: to be a knowledgeable Jew neccessitates a knowldge of Jewish history, Jewish languages, Jewish literature. With all due respect to Sherwin Wine and secularists, you can't reduce Jewish(ness) to culture and literature to throwaway lines and reaction to relgious extremism. Nor is 'heritage' easy to transmit across the generations if the religious core - which is central to Judaism - evicerated. Marx talked about the 'fetishism of commondities', and we we can become obsessed by 'cultural heritage' as a new mantra for a core of Jewish identity. I am not saying that you need to believe, but you do need to know. Barbara Ehrenreich wrote in a New York Times magazine a couple of years ago: "The more tradition-minded, the newly enthusiastic celebrants of Puim and Kwanzaa and Solstice, may see little point to survival if the surivors carry no cultural freight...To which I would say that skepticism, curiosity, and wide-eyed ecumenical tolerance are also worthy elements of the human tradition and are at least as old as such notions as 'Serbian' or 'Croatian', 'Scottish', or Jewish." Of course, one could argue that within each of those cultures there is a place for a wide-eyed tolerance, as well. That leads to one of my frustrations with my own exploration of a Judaism - you just can't pick it up easily, or summarise it - of course Hillel's maxims from the Ethics of the Fathers are wonderful - but religious civilisation isn't carried along by a few classic maxims. Judaism is too old, too literate, too connected with the development of East and West to be cut loose of its apprenticeship of learning its version, in its languges, of history and theology. This leads me to consider the other 'extreme' in Adam's perspective, and that is the 'philosphy' which might exist independently of any connection to (humanistic) Judaism. My overriding sense of identity with general human destiny, an ultimate type of 'agape' or love in the classical sense (as some Christians hold), leads me to find a great strength in humanism as expressed in the Ethical Culture movement, which puts ethics, not ethnics or ethnic pride at the centre of its concern, or up on an altar, or in place of Torah, particularly if one has discomfort with religious ceremony. Furthermore, there is another more fundamental problem that we need to address, connected to a choice we need to make (or at least be aware of), in terms of our fundamental orientation to humanity. There is a fundamental difference between Jewish 'ahavah' and 'hesed' (love) and Christian (and ultimately Western humanist) 'agape', as developed in the new testament. The Jewish sense of love is traditionally focussed on the covenant binding god with Israel (ie Sinai), and looks at the choseness of Jews as the means for expressing that love to the world. Christian love and covenant ideally, encompass many people [see the article 'Love' in the _Oxford Companion to the Bible_, 1993] What's going on here, gentle reader? Why should a humanist be concerned about such theological niceities? My point is that this distinction between the traditional Jewish inwardness and a Christian outwardness is reflected in the dilemma that Adam noted and that I am trying to locate as part of the tension in one's own humanistic and Jewish identity identity - Judaism does have substnatial historical baggage, and it's hard to give it a makeover without losing something at the core. Frankly, I don't know how to solve this 'problem', except carry out my life in this way - on one level I take pride in Jewish identification, Jewish history, and occasionally, Jewish ceremony. When I look, however, to working outside that community (as I do), it is far more simple if I adopt the Ethical Culture motto of 'deed not creed', and explicity, as often as I can, raise the humanist banner. One doen't need great relgious education to become attached to such an practical important ideal. If you have not, look at the writings of Ethical Culture leaders eg Edward Ericson's _The Humanist Way_ or even Muzzey's _Ethics as a Religion_ for great profundity about the revelation in understanding the power of humanist spirituality as expressed in positive action. And yet, we all know how deeply moving some traditional Jewish ceremonies can be, that the Language of Prayer (see Nathan Glazer's anthology), can also have depth, even it is not believed, or that some leader do have a charistmatic spirit. I hope that Sherwin Wine doesn't mind me saying that of the two occasions I have met him, and the 3 or 4 conversations over the phone - he has that 'touch'. But personally, that affects the 'private' part of my life - I can take little of Judaism with me into the world of action and work. With so many aspects of these identities on the agenda, it isn't a 50/50 balance for humanistic Jews. Of much more concern to me is getting in train a process for different stages and needs in our lives that pulls from all these things and imparts a rich love of humanity to our children. I don't have a real answer about how to do this. Who is next to contribute to this discussion? Larry Stillman vacab@vicnet.net.au Melbourne, Australia ******************************************************************************* "tuppi anniam ana mahrika attardam - temam suknam" - An Old Babylonian expression meaning - Look forward to your reply! ...................................................................... From achalom@minerva.cis.yale.eduMon Sep 4 16:00:04 1995 Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 00:53:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam To: Humanistic Judaism Subject: "Humanism vs (or with) Judaism" I'm not so sure I agree with Al's contention that the Jews "invented humanism 2000 years ago." The Jews may have had somthing to do with the institution of being humane, or being humanitarian with the concern for the widow and orphan, but this is not humanism. However, it's possible to claim that the importance of people was more stressed in Judaism than in any other contemporary religious development, so this is humanistic. However, this is NOT humanism as a philosophy of life. If anything, many Jews were programmed to be exclusive and religiously pious and observant, not very humanistic qualities to be sure. Humanism as an articulated philosophy of life depended on many other developments, like technological developments, advances in scientific knowledge, and other seeds for skepticism for a non-religious humanism (Humanism with a capital "H") to develop. This does not mean that I feel that my humanism is opposed to my Judaism; on the contrary, I feel that my humanism in large part comes from my Jewish historical experience. Studying Jewish history, all I can see is the ultimate importance of people and human ingenuity, creativity, and chutzpa. I don't see the hand of a benevolent God. The issue I wanted to discuss was not where humanism comes from or whether or not humanism and Judaism are opposed; I meant to discuss how we try to meld the two. Explicit humanist philosophy (i.e. potentially including everyone) vs. articulation of the Jewish experience (which concerns us but not necessarily everyone) based on our perception of it. I was very intrigued to hear Larry's reaction to the topic, because I think it highlights a very serious difference between Humanistic and more traditional Judaism. Because the dominant trend in Judaism until the 19th century (some would argue until today) has been religious, the most articulate expressions of Jewish identity throughout history have been religious. And religious Jews have no difficulty taking their Jewishness out with them every day, because their philosophy of life is expressed through Jewish mediums: Hebrew texts, the Torah, the Rabbinic writings, etc. For us, much if not all of the traditional Rabbinic texts deal with issues with which we are not concerned (eg Halakhic (religious law) observance or from where Cain's wife came), so our philosophy of life is NOT expressed by historical examples of Jewish literature. We have to deal with the fact that much of what some if not most Jews consider Jewishness to be has no relevance to us: ritual Torah study, Mitzvah fulfillment, Talmud study, Halkhic observace. So how do we deal with this? We can be ethnic on holidays and for life-cycle events like B'nai Mitzvah or weddings, but we have to be people living a philosophy of life every day. How do we keep a consciousness that our Jewishness is just as much a part of our every day lives as our humanistic philosophy? I think the solution has to be a personal one. For me, studying to become a Humanistic Rabbi, it's not difficult because every day I learn something new about Jewish History and look at it from a Humanistic perspective. I know I'm Jewish every day because of my perspective on events, both current and long-past. I think Larry is right that we need to be very aware of religious Jewish interpretations of history and texts, and I think that sometimes our philosophy takes precedence and we "pick and choose" our Jewish wisdom from what we consider wise, not what "they" consider wise. For example, I was raised in a humanistic congregation and never once heard the name Rashi or Rambam, two Rabbinic and/or philosophic geniuses (depending on how you view Maimonides (Rambam) who are revered on a level with all the highest rabbinic sages. I think a complete presentation of Judaism, even the things we don't believe or aren't proud of, like our historical exclusiveness, is essential to get a real knowledge of what Jewishness means to ALL Jews. I'm glad we've had some dialogue on the subject and that I've had a chance to formulate some of my own opinion, and I eagerly await the next response! Adam ...................................................................... From achalom@minerva.cis.yale.eduMon Sep 4 16:00:04 1995 Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 01:39:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam To: Humanistic Judaism Subject: Re: "Humanism vs (or with) Judaism" (fwd) Norm sent this to me but intended to send it to the group. Here it is. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 1 May 95 23:03:59 PDT From: Norman Rosenblatt To: Adam Subject: Re: "Humanism vs (or with) Judaism" Hi Adam, You've started a very intriguing line of discussion to which I'd like to add my two cents. I come from an Orthodox background. This means that I know about my culture, and that I honor and respect it. I am a product of that culture; it is in the marrow of my bones. What is Jewish culture? It is the sum of the Jewish historical experience: its art, music, languages, food, clothing, mannerisms, styles, and behaviors. Jewish culture, like Christian, Moslem, and other cultures, has been (until the 19th century) predominently religious. All cultures have been shedding their religious coloration due to the rise of empiricism and the scientific spirit. Judaism is no exception. We (Jews and non-Jews) have been slowly maturing. As we do so we find less need for a "big brother in the sky" to protect us, and less need for the notion of "heaven" to comfort us. The study of ancient texts has yielded to the study of computer printouts and lab notes. The real question is not what Judaism has been in the past but what is it today? And what will it become tommorrow? The Jewish practice of the past was the study of Gemora. What will be the Jewish practice of tomorrow? It is we HJs who will discover the answer to that question. It is we who will forge the Judaism of the future. We must recognize the value and importance of ritual and ceremony and work very hard to develop a humanistic liturgy and ritual modeled on our ancient tradition. The blessings we make, while they won't mention God, ought to sound like traditional barachot. The rituals we practice need to look like traditional rituals but be "people centered" rather than "God centered". We must try to be true to both our roots and our philosophy. To do so means we must be knowledgeable both as Jews and as Humanists. It's not an easy task. Yasher Koach! Norm Rosenblatt ...................................................................... From atauber@teleport.comMon Sep 4 16:00:04 1995 Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 19:22:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Tauber To: hj@teleport.com Subject: Jews invent humanism I will be quoting from Jews, God and History by Max I. Dimont from time to time. It was copywritten in 1962. Dimont is a non Jewish historian. The following are quotes from this book: It may take another few hundred years to establish that the spiritual, moral, ethical, and ideological roots of Western civilization are imbedded in Judaism. The Jews had the one and only exclusive God; the rite of circumcision; and the prohibition of human sacrifice (as so movingly told in the story of the binding of Isaac). They steered a course between sexual excess and continence. The Mosaic Code laid down the first principles for a separation of church and state. Moses also laid the foundation for another separation, which has since become indispensable to any democracy. He created an independent judiciary. In reading the laws, formulated some three thousand years ago, one is amazed at their humanitarianism. Slaves were treated more humanely and leniently than they were treated in the United States in 1850. Divorce laws were more liberal in the time of Moses than in present day England and women were held in high esteem. atauber@teleport.COM Public Access User --- Not affiliated with Teleport Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-14400, N81) ...................................................................... From nrosenbl@InterServ.ComMon Sep 4 16:00:04 1995 Date: Thu, 4 May 95 20:50:02 PDT From: Norman Rosenblatt To: hj@teleport.com Cc: nrosenbl@InterServ.Com Subject: Re. Jews and Humanism Hi Folks, In his recent post, Al Tauber correctly points us to some of the roots of humanism in the Mosaic code. The reason I am a humanist is at least partly because of my Jewish roots. Many of those humanistic impulses within the Jewish culture are of much more recent origin than the Mosaic code, however. They are primarily a product of the Haskala (the Enlightenment) and the Secular Jewish movements of the 19th and early 20th centuries. It is also of some importance to note that the Mosaic code as we know it originated during the reign of Josiah and took its current form at the time of Ezra. This doesn't detract from the code of course. I think the Mosaic code (whoever wrote it, and whenever it was written) is especially advanced in its treatment of the resident alien and the stranger. It specifies that the alien is to be treated just as the citizen. This would be a great lesson for some of today's politicians. Yes, Humanism and Judaism both teach "political" truths. This is because in today's America ideas that ought to be social policy have been politicized, and as Jews and as Humanists we ought to take a stand on core issues like the treatment of aliens. Norm Rosenblatt ...................................................................... From hellman@teleport.comMon Sep 4 16:00:04 1995 Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 20:15:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Walter Hellman To: hj@teleport.com Subject: What is the measure of Jewishness? Hello All, Here are some thoughts stemming from a new column in our monthly statewide Jewish Review periodical, the main Jewish publication in Oregon. A Chabad rabbi has started a Question and Answer column. Some of the questions he poses and confidently answers: "What is the Mitzvah of redeeming the first born?" "Does a first born by caesarean section require redemption?" "When is the correct time to name a child a Hebrew name?" It occurs to me that if being Jewish depends on the extent to which you do things such as these which are exclusively Jewish (as much as we may disagree with their legitimacy) then HJ's will never win the battle to be considered "serious Jews." The zealots will have a Hebrew blessing and "sacred" ritual for every occasion. I am repelled by this devotion to, and codification of, superstition. Nevertheless, many define "how religious a person is" by the extent of these actions. Obviously, we are not trying to fight this battle...and shouldn't be drawn into it. What can we do to better define what it is which makes us "serious" Jews...and make this clear to others while not betraying our true values? This question is closely connected with the history <--> philosophy discussions recently raised here. Even if it is true that our humanistic ethics are primarily descended from Jewish ancestry, we are still faced with the fact that acting ethically does not make us Jewish. What does? Certainly not the rituals described and widely publicized by those such as the Chabad rabbi. The alternative to not actively letting others know we are Jewish is to let others define what it is to be Jewish. This is not to encourage prosyletizing, but to caution that in being such strong humanists we often do not describe ourselves as Jews. There are many times in public life where it is appropriate to do so; let us do it so as not to be overrun by the zealots. Walter Hellman hellman@teleport.com Internet Public Access User Hillsboro, Oregon USA ...................................................................... From achalom@minerva.cis.yale.eduMon Sep 4 16:00:05 1995 Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 01:10:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam To: Walter Hellman Cc: hj@teleport.com Subject: Re: What is the measure of Jewishness? Walter et al: I'm in exam period so I don't have a lot of time to respond, but this last message reminded me of something. This Chabad rebbe's Q+A of what is Jewish doesn't surprise me at all, because that is exactly what rabbinic Judaism has been doing for 1900 years. Rabbinic discourse revolves around what is halakha, or what are Jews obligated to do to adhere to the Sinaitic revelation of Written and Oral Torah. In effect, it was the elite who defined Judaism for the masses. What makes Humanistic Judaism different as an organized Jewish movement is that it is the "masses" who determine the content of Jewishness. Our elites reflect our values, not their individual agendas. We have no Herem, or religious ban on heretics, because we have no sacred rules. The point of departure for "traditional" or "religious" Jews is belief in the revelation at Sinai of written and oral torah, and after that everything falls in to place. Our "problem" is our lack of faith in that revelation. So what do we do? What we have to do is challenge this definition of Judaism. There is so much of Jewishness that is outside of religious convictions, from language to history to food, that losing or never having that belief system in no way impairs being Jewish or feeling Jewish. And we have to say this clearly. In describing our shared tradition, we must include the history of this religious conviction and the role it played in Jewish behavior. But we must continue by explaining how Jewish culture developed many elements independent of or even in opposition to this religious belief system. There is no humanistic halakhah; that is one element of Jewish history I have no difficulty leaving to the Lubavitchers. But because halakhah is indubitably Jewish, it is part of my heritage nonetheless. That's all I have time for here; talk to you all later after I'm done (hopefully). Adam