Here are hj list posts on the Kaddish as well as two humanistic versions. Posts included here by: Roy Calder Jordi Sod Hoffs Susan Averbach (4) Roger Eden (2) Hans Leander ....................................................................... From CRCALDER@aol.com Fri May 31 20:52:29 1996 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 18:34:37 -0400 From: CRCALDER@aol.com To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Mourners Kaddish I have been actively participating in Yom Hashoa commemorative services, both in Humanistic as well as in Reform congregations, for many years. With the cooperation of the officiating Rabbi, even a Reform service can be very acceptable, provided the Rabbi knows you and respects your (humanistic)values. What I have not been able to find is an english translation of the mourner's Kaddish. I know it is not Hebrew and none of the (reform) prayerbooks show a translation. I was wondering whether Mike Prival, who found a need to change the Kaddish to make it acceptable to his congregation, or , who stated that "even humanists can say the mourner's kaddish" have an accurate translation of the prayer or any relevant comments. My wife, who is a member of a Reform Temple, and I have discussed with our local Rabbi (a personal friend) whether I would accept the saying of Kaddish at my funeral (years and years away), but not having seen an actual translation, I am sort of ambivalent. A translation would be very helpful to me. You may fax it to me at: 415-479-3128. Thanks in advance. Roy Calder. ....................................................................... From jordi@mail.internet.com.mx Fri May 31 20:52:29 1996 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 19:20:39 -0600 From: Jordi Sod Hoffs To: CRCALDER@aol.com Cc: hj@teleport.com Subject: Re: HJ/ Mourners Kaddish >What I have not been able to find is an english translation of the mourner's >Kaddish. I know it is not Hebrew and none of the (reform) prayerbooks show a >translation. I was wondering whether Mike Prival, who found a need to change >the Kaddish to make it acceptable to his congregation, or Bernie Banet, who >stated that "even humanists can say the mourner's kaddish" have an accurate >translation of the prayer or any relevant comments. Well, from an 1946 Sabbath and Prayer Book by the Rabbinical Assembly of America and the United Synagogue of America (Conservative?), here it goes: ------------------------------ _Mourners' Kaddish_ "Magnified and sanctified be the name of God throughout the world which He hath created according to His will. May he establish His kingdom during the days of your life and during the life of all the house of Israel, speedily, yeah, soon; and say ye, Amen." An answer by the congregation and another by the mourners follows, but this is the basic text... Kaddish is interesting; not only is it one of the few prayers in Aramaic (the language of the people), but it does not mention death anywhere. > >My wife, who is a member of a Reform Temple, and I have discussed with our >local Rabbi (a personal friend) whether I would accept the saying of Kaddish >at my funeral (years and years away), but not having seen an actual >translation, I am sort of ambivalent. A translation would be very helpful to >me. As far as I go, I plan to say Kaddish when my parents pass away, and wish my living relatives to say it when I'm gone. It has nothing to do with faith (hey, I'm an agnostic!); I just wish to symbolize the link I and my loved ones have to our ancestors, especially when one of us passes on to living only in the memory of those left behind. > >You may fax it to me at: 415-479-3128. Can I e-mail it to you instead? ;-) > >Thanks in advance. Roy Calder. > Welcome! Jordi Sod. ....................................................................... From saverbach@ortho1.ucsf.edu Fri May 31 20:52:30 1996 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 17:46:44 WST From: "Averbach, Susan" To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Kaddish For those who are interested, here is a humanist Kaddish that I got from Stacie Fine a while back. Susan Averbach _______________________________ HUMANIST KADDISH Yitgadal veyitkadash Magnified and hallowed rucha rachmana be the compassionate spirit. Bealma Let us fashion creation nivra in our world chire-utei according to its will Veyamlich malchuetei May its sovereignty come bechayechon uve-yomechon in your life and in your days uvecha-yei and in the life of delchol bet Yisrael the whole house of Israel ba-agala speedily uvizman ka-riv ve-imeru. Amayn. and in the near future. Amen Ye-hei ruch rachmana May the compassionate spirit meva rach le-alam be blessed unto eternity u-le-almei almaya. and unto eternities of eternities. Yitbarach ve-yishtabach Blessed, praised, ve-yitpa-ar ve-yitromam ve-yitnasei glorified, extolled, exalted, ve-yit-hadar ve-yitaleh ve-yit halal beautified, uplifed, and lauded rucha de-rachamanuta. be the compassionate spirit. Berich hu May it be blessed le-ela min kol birchata above all blessings veshirata, and hymns, tushbechata venechemata praises and consolations da-amiran be-alma. that are uttered in the world. ve-imeru: Amayn. Amen. Y-hei she-lama raba May there be great min shemaya, and heavenly peace, ve-chayim aleinu and life upon us ve-al kol Yisra-el and upon all Israel. ve-imeru: Amayn. Amen. Oseh shalom bimromav May the spirit hu ya-aseh that brings cosmic peace shalom aleinu bring peace unto us ve-al kol Yisrael and all Israel. ve-imeru. Amayn Amen. ....................................................................... Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 08:48:41 WST From: "Averbach, Susan" To: "Debra L. Ernsberger" Cc: hj@teleport.com Subject: Re[2]: HJ/ Kaddish The word spirit has already set off alarms with some people on the list in the past when I sent it out a while back. Other people love it. We are a diverse group. Susan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: HJ/ Kaddish Author: dle4@po.CWRU.Edu (Debra L. Ernsberger) at Internet-Mail Date: 4/18/96 9:35 PM The Kaddish is lovely sounding, very lyrical, but I wonder if the word "spirit" may set off alarms with some people. What is your opinion? Debbie in Ohio ....................................................................... From eden@siftac.easynet.co.uk Fri May 31 20:52:30 1996 Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:25:00 +0100 From: Roger Eden To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Kaddish, Tradition vs Integrity Kaddish symbolises for me the heart of the HJ problem, how do we express our deepest emotions in a Jewish way. If we are to become a mainstream expression of Judaism, can we synthesise tradition with intellectual and emotional integrity? Is there a middle way, that has the feel of being Jewish, whilst remaining true to our beliefs? I feel that the world and the Jews need the Jews to become Humanistic Jews, but this question - how to synthesise tradition with our beliefs - which is fundamental to the movements growth, is one to which I don't have the slightest answer. Some of the newer liturgy can be very moving, but lacks the cadence of Kaddish Can we share views? Roger Eden British Community for HJ eden@siftac.easynet.co.uk ....................................................................... From saverbach@ortho1.ucsf.edu Fri May 31 20:52:30 1996 Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 06:53:49 WST From: "Averbach, Susan" To: Roger Eden Cc: hj@teleport.com Subject: Re: HJ/ Kaddish, Tradition vs Integrity The cadence of the following Kaddish is the same as the traditional one. Instead of God we talk about the compassionate spirit. Some humanists are comfortable with this, some are not. -Susan Averbach (I got this Kaddish from Stacie Fine. I don't know her source.) Yitgadal veyitkadash rucha rachmana Bealma nivra chire-utei veyamlich malchutei bechayechon uve-yomechon uvecha-yei delchol bet Yisrael ba-agala uvizman ka-riv ve-imeru. Amayn. Ye-hei ruch rachmana meva rach le-alam u-le-almei almaya. Yitbarach ve-yishtabach ve-yitpa-ar ve-yitromam ve-hitnasei ve-yit-hadar ve-yitaleh ve-yit halal richa de-rachamanuta Berich hu le-ela min kol birchata veshirata, tushbechata venechemata da-amiran be-alma. ve-imeru: Amayn. Y-hei she-lama raba min shemaya, ve-chayim aleinu ve-al kol Yisra-el ve-imeru: Amayn. Oseh shalom bimromav hu ya-aseh shalom aleinu ve-al kol Yisrael ve-imeru. Amayn. ....................................................................... From eden@siftac.easynet.co.uk Fri May 31 20:52:30 1996 Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 21:45:33 +0100 From: Roger Eden To: "Averbach, Susan" Cc: hj@teleport.com Subject: Re: HJ/ More than Kaddish Thanks Susan, I saw the original posting of Stacie's Kaddish. I liked it! However, as you say some are happy with it, others not. Perhaps it works for those not too familiar with the original, and because Kaddish is Aramaic, even the original is more obscure than most other Hebrew prayers. We don't seem to have an agreed liturgy, or an Humanistic siddur - prayer book. I don't even know whether we want such a thing, but I do know that we do not appeal to large numbers of Jews - who are humanistic - without having thought through what that means, but for whom we seem insufficiently Jewish. Kaddish is only the tip of the iceberg. The Reconstructionists, seem to be battling with the same problem. In Israel one can be a de facto Secular Humanist Jew, even if weddings and funerals need an orthodox Rabbi. In Israel they are concerned with who is top of the Israel hit parade, whether HaPoel Tel Aviv will beat Maccabi Haifa, what is the latest - Israeli - folkdance (there seems to be a new one each week). The Israeli Philharmonic is one of the few great orchestras in the world always over subscribed. The Diaspora is remote from that. We do not compete in football or basketball, our youth do not contribute or follow the music of Israel (it's seen as a Jewish, but foreign country). Compared to other ethnic diaspora, they are closer to their homeland, whereas we have a history that leads us to be ambivalent about where is home. I think that we need more than just an alternative to the synagogue and the Rabbinical establishment, we need to have a vibrant expression of Judaism, similar (but not the same as) Israel. A rewritten Kaddish is a small step, but is it in the right direction? Are we thouroughly urbanised western middle class liberals, who happen to be Jews, whilst the Israelis are Middle Eastern mainly Rednecks who happen to be Jews. Are we in fact different ethnic groups, and if so are we in Europe yet another ethnic group who happen to be Jews? We limit our expression of Judaism to the synagogue/Temple, just like all other Diaspora Jews. I don't think that it's enough, nor do I think that the HJ Temple version can ever be more than a fringe movement. Without the shared adversity of the Israelis, do we have enough (Jewishness) to share? On the other hand, only HJ can encompass something much wider than the Temple, for all the others, it is their raison d'etre. Our struggles with Kaddish and other such things, is precisely because that is not our raison d'etre, but we have yet to really define what is. We have more theory than practice. So my question was actually much wider than what to do about Kaddish, although as I said - Kaddish symbolises for me the heart of the HJ problem, how do we express our deepest emotions in a Jewish way? Roger Eden British Community for HJ eden@siftac.easynet.co.uk ....................................................................... From saverbach@ortho1.ucsf.edu Fri May 31 20:52:30 1996 Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 14:00:02 WST From: "Averbach, Susan" To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/Kaddish Roger Eden asks: how do we express our deepest emotions in a Jewish way? Answer 1: Oy! I don't know. Answer 2: I think that I am comfortable expressing my deepest emotions in many ways. Sometimes, in a Jewish community context, I express my emotions in a Jewish way. For example, on Shabbat, we light candles and sing Hebrew and Yiddish songs. This is a special time. Other times my expressions are not particularly related to my Jewishness. And that is OK. We don't have to be constantly immersed in our Jewishness like the Orthodox are. Our identities are complex. I don't want to always express my emotions in a Jewish way. Even in extreme situations, like my father's funeral, I did not feel at all comforted by the traditional Jewish prayers, humanist Kaddish included. Also, I like to feel a universal connection with everyone. Sometimes I don't particularly want to feel tribal. Other times I do. I think our Jewishness, ie., our humanistic Jewishness is more complicated than past expressions of Jewishness. Susan Averbach ....................................................................... From hleander@pbfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us Fri May 31 20:52:30 1996 Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 23:45:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Hans Leander To: Hj List Subject: HJ/ Kaddish, feelings, and the movement [LONG] I take it that Roger implies that the Kaddish is a powerful expression of being Jewish, that it produced strong feelings of belonging to the Jewish people, and that the question is what Humanistic Judaism has to offer that functions the same way. Not being Jewish by upbringing, and never being religious in any relevant sense of the word, I must seek an example from another sphere to be able to analyze the above. I used to be a ham, a radio amateur, and feelings that may be compared with participating in a service, including the Kaddish, were evoked when I was spending a night with excellent atmospheric conditions having contacts with one remote corner of the globe after another. A contact with a ham in a country that had only a few hams. A contact with the McMurdo base in the Antarctic. Then with Alert, the northernmost inhabited spot on Earth (up in Canada). I felt I belonged to the "hamhood", I felt good! Today, I have gotten away from amateur radio. Today, I am more mainstream. Today, I contact people all over the world at any time, no matter what the atmospheric conditions are, at the Internet. And while I am sitting here wishing that some of those feelings I had back then would come back, I am so caught up in my present lift that I find it difficult even imagining going back being a ham. And I think, it is not something artificial seeking these feelings by taking certain actions. Shouldn't life the way I lead it today provide these feelings naturally to be valid? Wouldn't it be a step back in my development giving up my time on the Internet to be a ham? Morse code -- are you kidding? It's ancient! When I started as a ham, there was a real need for short wave communications. Today, we have fiber optics, satellites, computers, faxes, etc., which makes the ol' radio ready for retirement. The need is gone, and there is a pull from new things. I have presented this little analogy to try to get a feel for why there are so many unaffiliated Jews. The "need" and "advantages" of being a Jew are weakening, and there are many lures in the world outside the Jewish. Add to that many Jews' aversion to the traditional services, celebrations and observances, and to rites, symbols and ceremonies in general. (I remember myself the extreme boredom of the few Protestant services I participated in eons ago.) So, that is what we are up against, and one valid question is whether it is worth, or even possible, to fight against the changing times. **** At a minimum, our movement is a movement of Jews who want to be Jews without traditional religion, without worship and prayer. Jews feeling good being with like-minded Jews. An extension is to add more of the philosophy of humanism, such as human dignity (selfownership). A further extension is to add humanistically Jewish services. Humanism emphasizes the human being, secular Judaism the connection with history, tradition, and our Jewishness, and humanistic Judaism adds the dimension of humanistic "spirituality". With the additions above, we have limited the group of Jews that would be attracted to the movement. Many do not find the emphasis on human beings anything special (being assimilated does basically the same thing if you are not religious). Many do not care too much about their Jewish heritage, and many do not like ceremonies. However, a movement embracing all of the above would be more relevant as a force in Jewish life. This brings me to Roger's felt need that Jews become Humanistic Jews. If we want this to happen, I think we need to make Jews feel that they need or want to be Jews, to express their Jewishness. And we need to offer a replacement for what religion offers. We have to break down some social orders -- religion provides a power structure and attracts money. We have to show clearly that one is not more Jewish by being a fundamentalist. We have to stand up and say "I do not believe in God and I am Jewish!" (say "I am not a theist ..." and the impression will be nil). In addition to the above, I believe that we need to show how being "spiritual" will help us surviving better, become safer, more prosperous, and happier. Here, one of the problems is the use of the word "spirituality". We claim that there is such a thing as humanistic spirituality, and that it is good, almost a necessity if you want to be a good person, and still no one has yet, in my view, been able to define the term in any meaningful way. Stacie Fine has a definition, and I will refer to it in the future, but as far as I am concerned, "humanistic spirituality" is at this point the emperor's new clothes. I believe that humanistic Judaism is still at the stage of asking questions, not giving (hints of) answers. And I believe, to put it succinctly, that we will not be a force until we can make the relatively young person in the midst of her/his career stop, take a breather, and then incorporate [no pun intended] Humanistic Judaism in his/her life. However, I do not feel that our philosophy of life has yet reached the point of offering a useful AND "spiritual" interpretation of life and the universe. Hans Leander Boca Raton, Florida hleander@pbfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us