Here are posts from the hj list relating to the interaction of secularism and Judaism...leading to the questioning of why it is necessary to "bother" being Jewish and whether it is wise to use the adjective "secular" with Judaism. The exchange starts with what is almost an aside in a message of John Klein. Posts included here by: John Klein (2) Walter Hellman (2) Alison Jerris Roger Eden Patty Becker (2) Sheldon Schaffer Harold Black Bob Wolfe Hillary Shemin Dennis Geller Judith Seid Mike Prival Miriam Jerris Rifka Bess Katz Jim Harley ..................................................................... From: John Klein <101333.2634@compuserve.com> To: HJ Subject: HJ/ HJ virtual community A few more thoughts about our HJ virtual community... Though not a "real", living HJ community, this list of ours does have one or two advantages of its own. For a start, one doesn't have to look or feel one's best when talking to fellow members... More seriously, it also encourages a certain philosophizing which I usually find quite stimulating as long as it eventually leads to some practical objectives. The other night, I was listening to my local talk- radio station - it was about 1.30 in the morning - and the host was feeling uncommonly thoughtful: his subject was " Why are we here?" Needless to say, the phone lines were constantly jammed when I tried to get on and put my secular-humanistic viewpoint across. I wonder what some of you out there would have phoned in to say? Personally, I was going to say simply that we're here to fulfil our unique potential as best we can and enjoy this life before it's too late. Of course, this ignores my specifically Jewish aspect and I'm still not too sure where that comes into play. Louis Friedhandler recently cited the well-known adage "Shver tzu zayn a Yiid" (It's hard to be a Jew) - I'm now wondering whether that's true any longer for the majority of Jews in the world? John Klein ..................................................................... Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 09:30:33 -0800 (PST) From: Walter Hellman To: John Klein <101333.2634@compuserve.com> Cc: HJ Subject: HJ/ Why bother being Jewish? I have changed the subject heading on this message because I think John brings up an important question that lurks in the minds of many who might be drawn to Humanistic Judaism..."Why bother being Jewish?" As John writes, when you look at your moral and philosophical outlook, where does the necessity of Judaism come in? Couldn't this outlook be maintained by a non-Jewish person equally as well? My response to this question runs something as follows: There is no more need to be Jewish than there is to have a last name and a family heritage. There is no more need to be Jewish than there is a need to know history and be more than a thin layer of existence with no roots. Our problem with the question stems, I think, just from the fact that as secularists, we tend to value rationality more than most. The implied objections to rootlessness I raised in the last paragraph have much to do with emotions rather than rationality, although I think there is a strong case to be made for the practical benefits of having a heritage. Still, I would rather live with the riches of my heritage (born to or adopted) than without it. To the extent that HJ deals with these needs, I think we will better succeed. Walter Hellman ..................................................................... From JERRISA@carleton.eduMon Jan 29 18:48:22 1996 Date: Sat, 06 Jan 1996 21:50:22 -0600 (CST) From: JERRISA@carleton.edu To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ addressing a few areas .... Second...to the question Why are we here? Answer-...because we are.. Seriously I didn't have a choice in the matter. To the question - Why bother being Jewish? Answer - ...It never occured to me that being Jewish was a bother. I'm Jewish I always have been and I practice in the way theat I do. But if you have to ask the question why bother?, Why do you? does it really take that much efforst to be jewish. It doesn't for me at least, and I live in a town with maybe ten jewish families, the nearest temple is 45 miles away and across the river is a very lutheran college. So there aren't many of us but it still isn't a bother . I enjoy it. If I took your question wrong please clarufy. thanls. Anyway, thankyou for putting up with my typos. -aj ..................................................................... From eden@siftac.easynet.co.ukMon Jan 29 18:48:22 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 17:54:05 GMT From: Roger Eden To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Why be Jewish? Why not just Humanist? John Klein asks and Walter Hellmann answers, about being Jewish. I'd like to add a point. How many of us know more than ten Jews who know who the Amalek were or what they did? We might be hard pressed to find ten who had never attended a Passover Seder. Therefore, almost every Jew we know has said at some time - Remember what Amalek did to you - (from the Passover Haggadah). There must have been many civilisations that have gone the way of the Amalek. Maybe quite a few were very worthy. For many different reasons Judaism has survived. Abandoning it is like living species becoming extinct. It is impossible to create a thousand year old tradition overnight. One of the reasons for the demise of Communism was its attempt to completely replace religion. Throwing out the baby with the bath water. Ethical behaviour obviously does not stem solely from reason. We don't need a revolution, but evolution. There is much to be treasured in our heritage. It isn't all Genocide (Joshua at Jericho), or Obsessive-compulsive behaviour (Tefillim), there is much compassion, and relative to it's time, some very advanced humanist thinking. This most important bit, is the one that the Rabbinate are gradually abandoning. So are the Christians and the Muslims (although the former never really grasped it in the first place). There aren't obvious alternatives, that have the benefit of being ancient, which seems to me an important component. That's my two cents of reasoning for being a concerned Jew. Roger Eden, British Community for HJ eden@siftac.easynet.co.uk ..................................................................... From Patty_Becker@MTS.cc.Wayne.eduMon Jan 29 18:48:23 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 96 22:21:26 EST From: Patty_Becker@MTS.cc.Wayne.edu To: hj@teleport.com Subject: Why bother being Jewish??? Hello, everyone: I've been reading and reading here, but not writing much back--I won't bore you with the reasons except to say they have nothing to do with what is written on here... Why bother being Jewish??? I am Jewish! Philosophically, perhaps even religiously, I am a humanist, but in the core of my being, I am Jewish. I would lose so much of myself if I didn't have a way to express that part of me, which is as essential as being a woman or being a demographer or being a mother and a wife. Organized humanistic Judaism, SHJ style, gives me that opportunity, one that I wasn't sure I would have as an adult when I was growing up in the old country/Yiddish-steeped Workmen's Circle of my childhood. Organized humanistic Judaism has enabled us to raise our daughter with such an identification that now, at 21, she takes great pleasure in her Jewish identity and wants to remain Jewish. I truly feel sorry for people who say it isn't worth "bothering" to be Jewish! ..................................................................... Date: 08 Jan 96 21:04:14 EST From: John Klein <101333.2634@compuserve.com> To: HJ Subject: HJ/ HJ / Why be Jewish? Hi all, Walter raises an important question which I can't tackle seriously at this precise moment as it's getting pretty late, but I just wanted to make a comment or two before I forget. In my previous message, I tried to sum up my philosophy as succinctly as I could, leaving the question of my Jewishness in abeyance. I did _not_ say "Why bother being Jewish" - ( to which Alison Jerris correctly retorted - it's no bother being Jewish!-) As to the meaning of life, we'll never know -but we sure enjoy trying to find out! Also, if we hj's have no assurance of an after-life, it's vital to define a positive way of living and purpose for ourselves whilst we're here; hence the success of HJ communities. I've been very encouraged by the recent flurry of messages apropos this virtual HJ community of ours on the Net. Kol HaKavod! -( or Keep up the good work!) I really look forward to meeting up with some of you in the not -too- distant future! Roger and Walter both raise important issues concerning Jewishness and I can't disagree, for the main part ,with what they say. Without being proud of our heritage, we have no roots - it is true. But (you knew there had to be a "but") being proud of it is not enough -we must add to out inheritance, and be worthy of it - shouldn't we? The humanistic ethic which permeates our Bible is indeed our unique contribution to mankind, though in the centuries since those times, secular Jews have also contributed immeasurably to science and culture world-wide. As to my partly rhetorical question, Is it still so hard to be a Jew? - perhaps there can never be a satisfactory answer, given that we don't yet have an exact definition of Jewishness or rather, that it varies from person to person. Regards, John Klein.... ..................................................................... Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:40:18 -0500 From: ShSchaffer@aol.com To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Why, How be Jewish? 1/10/96, shschaffer@aol.com to hj@teleport.com Why, How be Jewish? Some, if not much, of the ongoing discussion on the questions of why or how to be Jewish, or secularly and humanistically Jewish, correctly stresses affinity to heritage, ritual, community, Hebrew, Yiddish, support, interaction, and other important tribal considerations. But I find myself somewhat uncomfortable with just these reasons. They seem to lack the moral imperative, which I was brought up to believe, by my relatively uneducated parents, is THE underlying reason for being and THE primary characterization of Judaism. I recall reading a science fiction story many, many years ago (maybe someone on this list might have also read and can identify it) about human life on another planet, somewhere out there. It may have been on this planet, billions of years before or after our time. A war or revolution took place with heavy damage to life and societal structure. The human beings who remained then set about to reconstruct. The essence of that reconstruction was not physical, but (and maybe my memory is indeed fuzzy) the moral imperative of Judaism. Again, somewhere else I read that if Judaism didn't exist, it would have to be invented, it would inevitably be invented. For me, this adds up to the conclusion that life is really much more than the symbolisms, the history, the languages, the artistic expression, the heroes; it is the sum of total behavior and interaction here and now and the commitment, personal and community--tribal, to pursue the moral imperative in that total behavior and interaction. I revel in my Jewishness--which I now fairly firmly identify as Secular Humanistic Judaism and which I realize I really held to all my thinking life but was sometimes too confused, scared, rigid to perceive and assert--and all its symbolism, history, etc. The latter stuff--symbolism, history, etc.--for me is personally important, extremely important because it helps me identify and feel heimisch with a group that really does commit and has committed much of the time. Yes, I admit to wanting to be part of a group that really does carry the torch and tries, even if sometimes in vain, to live up to the mandate. So Judaism for me is all the coloration that has been talked about on the list, plus the real heart of the matter, the real message, the moral imperative. I apologize for sermonizing--maybe in the next life I should be a rabbi--but I sense that something important has been missing from or has been vastly understated in much of the ongoing discussion. shschaffer@aol.com Sheldon Schaffer, Birmingham, Alabama (I wish everyone on the list would fully identify their names and locations, it would add to sense of list community that many of us enjoy) ..................................................................... Date: 10 Jan 96 17:50:13 EST From: John Klein <101333.2634@compuserve.com> To: HJ Subject: HJ/ Ivrit or Yinglish? Shalom chaverim! Roger's excellent Hebrew lesson shows how useful the Internet might one day become, as an educational tool. For instance, one could start up a cultural or language exchange via e-mail. English is in such great demand that we would find no shortage of exchange-students. As regards a Jewish lingua franca, English seems the obvious choice, especially when you add some Yiddish mannerisms, as suggested by Leo Rosten. O.K. - Mike Prival makes a good point about using Hebrew characters to kind of separate , but also to unite Jewish people in a universal Jewish-English language, however (sorry Mike), I remain unconvinced. For me, if I needed an easier language than modern Hebrew, Roger's demonstration suggests a third option - how about writing Hebrew words using Roman characters? ( just as the modern Turkish language Europeanized itself when it abolished the Arabic script, some 70 years ago) The spellings might be a little tricky to standardize, but I think many people, myself included, would find that we could read "Hebrew" prose much, much faster, in this way. Ma ata choshev, Roger? -Ayneni tzodek ? And now to the question of Jewish identity ... quite frankly, if someone wants to call him/herself a Jew (ish), who am I to discourage that person from joining an HJ community? (Here, in London, we can't afford to alienate any potential member. ) The more, the merrier - what counts is whether s/he's a Mentsh! On the other hand, if we continue to assimilate and marry out, then at least we should make sure that every Diaspora child is given a chance to spend, say ,12 months in Israel (maybe an educational exchange with an Israeli student?) This would give them a feeling for Jewish history and (hopefully) some pride in their heritage. Naturally, they would come back speaking fluent Hebrew. Regards, John Klein P.S. Sheldon - why not drop the term "secular" in front of HJ, so as not to alienate newcomers to our movement? It's a bit superfluous anyway, isn't it? ..................................................................... Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 14:10:35 -0500 From: HAROLD BLACK To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Why be Jewish For most of us being Jewish is not a choice. We are born that way and are acculturated by Jews. There are the influences of the larger culture which pull us in various directions, but being Jewish is our home base. You can be a citizen of the world but you can only feel close to the members of your family. My family is the Jewish people and my closest relatives are my fellow humanistic jews. I draw substenanace from them. They care about what happens to me. To be in services with them gives me a sense of joy. If you want to know what being Jewish is like come with me to the locker room at the Jewish community center. Words are used like friendly weapons. Everyone gets a chance to be on stage and to hold the other's attention. Being a citizen of the world can be very lonely. Being a citizen of a community gives me joy. Harold Black, Machar, Humanist congregation of Washington, D.C ..................................................................... Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 16:01:28 EST From: Patty_Becker@MTS.cc.Wayne.edu To: hj@teleport.com Dennis Geller's message about dropping the "secular" from Secular and Humanistic Judaism just crossed my screen. Come on, now. First of all, there isi a good political reason for bringing the two together--it brings together the two strains of this movement into one force which can move better into the future. The secular strain is the Workmen's Circle (Arbeter Ring) and other old Yiddish groups, and their more current version the SCJO (Congress of Secular Jewish Organizations). The other strain is represented by the Society for Humanistic Judaism and has its beginning with Sherwin Wine at the Birmingham Temple. Having grown up in the first [D, having my primari[Dy affiliation now in the second but still with membership in the Arbeter Ring, and having one of my siblings very active in CSJO while the other is married to the executive director of the SHJ, I can clearly see the need to bring them together! Second, to me the term "humanistic" explicitly means non-theistic. Now whether this means eliminating the "spiritual" is open to some discussion, except that I don't think the discussion is worth the time it takes. We all have our own means of accessing spirituality and feeling spiritual, but most people who consider themselves humanistic would not include a theistic or God concept in that. I certainly don't. The important point of this seccular and humanistic Jewish movement is to make it possible to enjoy and celebrate one's Jewish identity and connection to the Jewish people without having to worry about whether or not you believe in God and halacha. Patty Becker ..................................................................... Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:56:59 EST From: MR ROBERT D WOLFE To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Why be Jewish? With regard to the Why be Jewish question, I would like to add a few points. In the first place, I don't think that this choice is quite so arbitrary as some people are making it appear. As a practical matter, the choice is not between being Jewish and being just plain secular, but between being Jewish and being Christian. I say this with some confidence because I come from a Jewish secular background and spent many years trying to be just plain secular. It gradually dawned on me that American secular culture, when not explicitly Jewish, was permeated with Christian attitudes, values and beliefs. If you doubt this, pick any non-Jewish secular organization at random and ask them if they have an annual Christmas party. Some Jews may find Christianity a tempting alternative, but I don't. For one thing it is profoundly anti-Semitic; for another it upholds an unrealistic and life-denying value system. So in the absence of a truly non-denominational American secular community, I see little choice but to be Jewish. This is not to deny all the wonderful things that people have said about being Jewish: it's just that for me, it was more a matter of first realizing that I was stuck with being Jewish and then looking around for the wonderful part. In the second place, I would like to pick up on Sheldon Schaffer's comments about being Jewish entailing more than tribalism but also a sense of mission. I strongly agree. As I already indicated, learning Hebrew is a good way for secular Jews to deal with the issue of tribal affiliation, but there does need to be something more. For me that something more boils down to the belief that the Jewish values of lovingkindness (hesed), justice and rationality are worthy of becoming the values of the entire human race. I try (not always successfully) to embody these values both in my day to day relations with other people and also in my ideas for political, social and economic change. In so doing, I feel a part of a long tradition of Jews, both secular and religious, who have done the same. I am not sure if this is this is the answer that people want to the Why be Jewish question, since if we would put this in the form of an ad, it would read: "Be Jewish so that you can make the world a better place and be persecuted for doing it." All the same, I am firmly convinced that it is the real deal and the real meaning to our lives as Jews. Bob Wolfe, New York City ..................................................................... Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 23:13:57 -0700 (MST) From: shas To: hj@teleport.com Cc: SVMCO8@prodigy.com Subject: Re:HJ/ Why be Jewish Dear Bob...Your letter this morning is one for my hard copy file. You wrote beautifully and put into words many feelings I have. I never tried to be 'just plain secular' but living in a Christian society I know what you meant. Your letter is one I will share with my children in my subtle way of letting them see from others besides Mom and Dad what a Jewish perspective on the world around us is like. Shalom, Hillary Shemin Scottsdale, AZ ..................................................................... Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:10:50 -0500 (EST) From: DENNIS GELLER To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/Re: Secular John Klein wries P.S. Sheldon - why not drop the term "secular" in front of HJ, so as not to alienate newcomers to our movement? It's a bit superfluous anyway, isn't it? More than superfluous, I think it's incorrect as a general label. Before joining Kahal B'raira we belonged for a while to a Workers' Circle Shule. It had very much the same kinds of people as we have since found at KB, but it was truly secular. We eventually became dissatisfied because of the total disinterest in anything spiritual. One of the pleasures for me has been in discovering that "non-deist" is no the same as secular. I can well understand how others affiliated with HJ might wish to take a more "secular" approach than I do but would prefer that the semi-official name for the movement not exclude any notion of a spiritual component. Dennis Geller Brookline, MA ..................................................................... Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 00:06:10 -0500 From: JudithSeid@aol.com To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Re: hj-digest V2 #3 Re: John Klein's request that "secular" be left off our definition. John, about half of us in the U.S. belong not to the Society for Humanistic Judaism, but to the Congress of Secular Jewish Organizations. Secular is the English for the Yiddish word "veltlakh" which was used to identify secular Jews in Europe as long as about a hundred years ago. We really ought not give up our roots. Judith Seid Ann Arbor, MI, USA ..................................................................... Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 19:22:33 -0500 From: MPrival@aol.com To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Hebrew/Secular/How to Grow ... John Klein and Dennis Geller have suggested dropping the "Secular" from "Secular Humanistic Judaism". Patty Becker and Judith Seid have explained one important reason for retaining "Secular"--the fact that we in the Society for Humanistic Judaism are now working very closely with the Congress of Secular Jewish Organizations in leadership training and other essential activities. There are other reasons why I use "Secular" along with "Humanistic" whenever I can. The word "humanist" is very ambiguous. Most people consider themselves to be "humanists"--by which they mean either that they have a humanitarian outlook or that they are well-versed in the humanities (art, literature, etc.). The term "secular humanist" (having been well publicized by Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, etc.) is much clearer. Part of the objection to using "secular" may derive from the fact that this word, particularly when used in the term "secular Jew", had a particular hard edge about it at one time--evoking the militant left-wing atheists of past decades. But younger people are not familiar with this connotation. (Let me quickly state that I, personally, consider it a great privilege to be referred to by the same word as those militant left-wing atheists--but I understand that some "Secular Humanistic Jews" do not). With the passage of time, "secular" has, I think, taken on a more neutral meaning, simply implying non-religious or, more precisely in our case, non-theistic.2 Harold Black's recent note on "How to Grow" suggests that I might post the advertisement that we place in the Washington Post each year to advertise our High Holidays. In this ad, we use the term "Secular Jews" in the first sentence in very large type for the reasons I gave above--so that readers will know immediately that we are not "religious" (in the ordinary sense of the word "religious"), or nontheistic. Here is the text of the ad: --------------------------------------------------------------------- HOW DO SECULAR JEWS OBSERVE THE HIGH HOLIDAYS? By staying home from work? By going to work? By participating in rituals that make you uncomfortable? MACHAR, THE WASHINGTON SOCIETY FOR HUMANISTIC JUDAISM, provides a way for secular Jews to celebrate holidays and participate in Jewish life without compromising the non-theistic viewpoint. We believe that the Jews are a people with a unique culture, history, and ethical outlook, not just a religious group. [Details of time and place for Rosh Hashana, Kol Nidre, and Yom Kippur services are inserted here]. Free child care provided. For further information, call (703)536-7082. For information about Sunday School, call (301)770-3110. $30/service, $75/three services, no charge for children's service. Machar is affiliated with the National Society for Humanistic Judaism. Our members are from Virginia, Maryland, and D.C. ----------------------------------------------------------- I agree with Harold that the way to help a group grow is to have services that are well advetised. Passover Seders and High Holiday services are a great draw. Our movement has many wonderful texts that can be used for these services, and newcomers are often overwhelmed by attending, for the first time in their lives, Jewish services that actually reflect their own personal views in an honest and moving way. Mike Prival Machar The Washington D.C. Area Congregation for Humanistic Judaism ..................................................................... Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:38:37 -0500 From: Msjerris@aol.com To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Including the words humanistic and secular I've been struggling with the posts on the issue of secular. Since I tend to be pragmatic first and sometimes last, I value including secular because it includes an entire segment of our movement who identify with our philosophy and values using the word secular. I respect and appreciate the post of Judith Seid's pointing out the meaning of the Yiddish word. Although some Humanistic Jews like to think they are the founders of a new idea begininng in 1963 with Sherwin Wine, it is simply not true. Our roots preceed that date. I am reminded of William James Varieties of Religious Experience. The message of that book most profoundly for me was the description of an experience and then the varities of ways in which it is descrbied and explained and labeled. In the end, the people who identify as secular and the people who identify as humanistic overlap and come together in so many ways. I have heard people from the CSJO remark that someone from the SHJ is "one of ours". My answer to that is that "we are all us". We are just privileged to have a lot of diversity within our groups (rather than between our groups). I for one am ready to bring the groups together and to call us the Congress or Society of Secular Humanistic Jews. The "word" secular does not exclude a humanistic spirituality. The "word" humanistic does not include something different or special. Look at what we do. Read the liturgy of both the CSJO and the SHJ. There aer not that many differences except stylistic and the amount of Yiddish and or Hebrew that may be included. I do not want to exclude secular. Some of my best friends are Secular Jews. Miriam Jerris ..................................................................... Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 17:36:09 -0500 From: RchayaG@aol.com To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Re: hj-digest V2 #2 This is in response to the comment about why bother bring Jewish and that your kids will question. I'm amd the daughter of Judy Seid and I have never questioned my identity as a Jew. For me it just is, just the same as the fact that I have brown hair. I plan on raising kids I have (If I have any ) in a similar way to what I have been raised. For me their is no question "Ich bin a Yid"( I am a Jew) that's in the JCS's passover seder but it fits. Please excuse odd spelling. ..................................................................... Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 09:12:38 -0500 From: BESSK@aol.com To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ "secular" With regard to the use of the term "secular' -- I was a member of he International Federation's initiating committee which met in Israel in 1985 and formulated plans to establish the International Federation if three national organizations agreed to it. The point was very srongly made and agreed upon in discussion of a name: that there are religious humanists -- that it was extremely important for us to make that distinction in order to properly identify ourselves. Even International Federation of Secular and Humanistic Jews was not deemed acceptable, so the "and" was not used in the name. The three organizations were: the Israel Assn. for Secular Humanistic Judaism, the Society for Humanistic Judaism, and the Congress of Secular Jewish Organizations. They agreed to be the founding nucleus, the IF was established in Octoberof 1986, and the rest is history... Bess Katz ..................................................................... Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 20:26:13 -0800 (PST) From: Walter Hellman To: hj@teleport.com Subject: HJ/ Secular Hello All, The debate over the term "secular" would seem to raise some bedrock questions for us. Whether or not we can agree on this issue, however, the fact is that most of us agree behaviorally: We are non-theistic. Prayers to a deity are not in our services. We reject dogma based in supernatural authority. There are, however, some practical consequences in the decision as to how much we use the word, related to how mainstream a Jewish organization we will become. The dictionary definition of secular basically is "non-religious." Judaism is generally referred to as "one of the world's great religions." Can one be a Jew without being a member of a religion? That is, is "secular Jew" a contradiction in terms? One response is that Judaism is not really a religion (in spite of its popular description), but more of a culture, hence the secular Jewish movements in Israel and this country. There are a number of us who feel we ought to leave it at that, asserting this cultural, philosophical and ethical view of the basis of Judaism. The opposite side of the coin is that there are also a number of us who feel becoming a member of a culture does not complete the spiritual link inherent in their love of Judaism. In this view, Judaism is a religion in its emotional basis, but remains non-theistic. Remembering that most of us will still enjoy the same HJ ceremonies, services and activities no matter what we feel about the use of "secular," I still would like to put in my two cents: I feel we have very little to gain by adding "secular" to Humanistic Judaism. We will alienate some people, perhaps a good number, who would really fit with us. We change nothing in regard to our basic philosophy by adding the term. We stand a much better chance of evolving into a major branch of Judaism if we do not explicitly say we are non- religious, as the addition of the term would do. When the definition of religion is so fuzzy, we should take advantage of this rather than needlessly painting ourselves into a small corner. I believe the Supreme Court has ruled that religion does not necessarily involve a deity, but strong beliefs. As Bess Katz indicated in her valuable post on the history of the International Federation naming (thank you Bess!), none of this is new territory. That fact remains it has been suggested we add the term "secular" to our name. My vote is to stick with Humanistic Judaism as a name and not add the secular adjective for the reasons just given. Walter Hellman ..................................................................... Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 01:39:23 -0500 (EST) From: "James Harley Jr." To: Walter Hellman Cc: hj@teleport.com Subject: Re: HJ/ Secular With regard to the adjective Secular for Humanistic Judaism, we haven't "added" the Word Secular to the name of our movement. It has, as much as I can determine, always been Secular Humanistic Judaism. Furthermore, my Temple had a dilemma over its non-profit corporation status in that there was no category an entity like ours, specifically, we did NOT want to be classified as a "religious" organization. However, it was the only way, unfortunately, to have non-profit status. Although the Supreme Court has its definition of religious, most everyone else associates religion with a supernatural agency, especially devotion to god. For my two cents, I do not want to be classified as religious. I also am concerned about the growth of our movement. I do not, however, believe we should use nebulous language that can be misinterpreted. So, I want Secular Humanistic Judaism. It clearly identifies the movement I joined where just Humanistic Judaism is not. Jim Harley (at the top of the mitten)