Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 19:27:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Walter Hellman To: hj@teleport.com Subject: Re: Seder Survey Happy Passover! Thanks for the very interesting responses to the Seder Survey. It's time to put my answers where my questions are (so to speak). Here's what Humanistic Jews of Greater Portland (Oregon) will be doing: > > 1. Where are you holding your seder? > At the Valley Conference Center in Beaverton, OR. They have been very willing to accomodate our special needs. > > 2. What hagaddah are you using? How does it differ from a > traditional hagaddah? We went through every hagaddah we could find and made up our own. There are no references to the supernatural although we do tell the story of the Exodus, saying that although the story has been mythologized, the basic theme foreshadowed many subsequent Jewish experiences. The format of the hagaddah is traditional...the Four Children even make an appearance...but the whole tone is humanistic > > 3. How long do you expect your seder to last? Probably about 2 hours with the meal > 4. How are you handling the food arrangements? > This is our first catered year. We discussed having small seders at various homes with the same hagaddah, but, in the end, decided that this was a time for all to be together. > > 5. How much Hebrew is in the seder? Some of the blessings are in Hebrew. "Children who can and all adults" will attempt transliterated 4 Questions as a reading. > 6. Children's role? We have just started our Childrens' Education program and so childrens' role will be somewhat limited this year although the seder will be fully open to children. We are working on childrens' songs. > > 7. Are you charging? If so, how much? > $15 for members,(less for children), $18 non-members > > 8. Anything else others might be interested in? We're expecting about 70 people. Songs will be done both by the whole group (Hiney Ma Tov, Dayenu, Shalom Chaverim, Eliyahu Hanavi, Let My People Go, Hatikva) and by The HJ Singers (Praise The Light, L'Chi Lach, Adir Hu). I'm especially excited about "Praise the Light." I just love the tune to Shalom Aleichem but was uncomfortable with the Hebrew once I learned the translation. This is a real problem! At any rate, I worked hard to put English words which had more meaning for me to the tune while still trying to keep the flavor of what I felt from the Hebrew (before I knew what it meant!). Anyway, our seder will be the "coming out" for the new version. > > > Walter Hellman > hellman@teleport.com Internet Public Access User Hillsboro, Oregon USA > > > hellman@teleport.com Internet Public Access User Hillsboro, Oregon USA [ Part 2.165: "Seder Survey (fwd)" ] Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 17:34:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Walter Hellman To: hj@teleport.com Subject: Seder Survey Hello All, I think it would be interesting and useful to hear how various communities are doing the Passover seder. Here are some questions: 1. Where are you holding your seder? 2. What hagaddah are you using? How does it differ from a traditional hagaddah? 3. How long do you expect your seder to last? 4. How are you handling the food arrangements? 5. How much Hebrew is in the seder? 6. Children's role? 7. Are you charging? If so, how much? 8. Anything else others might be interested in? Thanks. Please identify your community in your response! Walter Hellman hellman@teleport.com Internet Public Access User Hillsboro, Oregon USA [ Part 2.166: "Seder Survey (fwd)" ] Date: Tue, 11 Apr 95 20:55:34 PDT From: Norman Rosenblatt To: hj@teleport.com Subject: Seder Survey Response from San Diego, California 1. Where are you holding your seder? We have rented a hall in a central location because our regular meeting place is too small for the seder attendance. 2. What hagaddah are you using? How does it differ from a traditional hagaddah? We have written our own. It incorporates those customs and elements of tradition that our liturgy committee feels are meaningful but omits all supernatural references. The traditional exodus story is only briefly mentioned, and modern events are stressed. We have developed some new customs such as a cup for both Elijah and Deborah, a section entitled "We Are Not Satisfied," and others. Each of the four cups of wine has a specific message: Joy, Remembrance, Freedom, Human Dignity. 3. How long do you expect your seder to last? One and a half to two hours including the commentary and singing afterwards. We have developed a "Seder before the meal" format. The entire seder is completed before the food is served. 4. How are you handling the food arrangements? We have hired a caterer. 5. How much Hebrew is in the seder? About 10%. Each Hebrew word or phrase is also transliterated and translated. 6. Children's role? Our Sunday School and Mitzvah students are asking the "four questions," telling the exodus story, and explaining the seder plate foods and symbols. 7. Are you charging? If so, how much? $20 for members, $25 for non-menbers, half price for young children. 8. Anything else others might be interested in? Our attendance is over 170 this year, an 80% increase over last year. We assign readings from the Haggadah to selected members as "honors." Norm Rosenblatt [ Part 2.167: "Re: Seder Survey (fwd)" ] Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 07:29:10 -0400 From: Mate1920@aol.com To: hellman@teleport.com Subject: Re: Seder Survey 1. Northern California will hold its Seder Sunday at 4 p.m. in a rented hall. 2. We have written our own -- adapted several years ago from the SHJ, Cincinatti, and our own committee input.. 3. An hour or so before the meal -- this year Yaakov Malkin , Dean ofour International Institute in Jerusalem is visiting family in Berkeley and will deliver a commentary( in lieu of the discussion which we usually include). His topic "What Passover Means to Hiumanistic Jews". 4. Meal is catered. 5. Very little Hebrew is used -- some of the sonbgs are in Hebrew and also sung in English with transliterated text. 6. We usually have 4 or 5 children or grandchildren of members present and they do the 4 questions. 7. $25 members, $35 non-members, $15 children under 12. 8. We will have hAll capacity of 65 -- next year we hope to find larger quarters. Bert Steinberg [ Part 2.168: "Passover Seder & Vegetarians (fwd)" ] Date: Wed, 12 Apr 95 6:55:50 PDT From: Ted Shapin To: hj@teleport.com Subject: Passover Seder & Vegetarians I wrote this for some local Unitarian Universalist groups. Ted Passover Seder and Vegetarians Ted Shapin With the Passover season upon us, a number of synagogues and churches are having group seders. While traditionally, the seder is a ceremonial meal celebrated at home on the first or second night of Passover, these events are a joyous occasion to let everyone participate in one of the loveliest of Jewish festivals. During the seder a Haggadah is read before dinner, which tells the story of the Exodus of the Jews from bondage in Egypt to freedom. The story has been broadened over the years to include contemporary struggles for freedom, not only of Jews, but of other oppressed peoples. Over 4,000 different Haggadot have been published according to Ira Steingroot in "Keeping Passover", Harper-Collins, 1995. His book has a catalog of 126 of them and a even a chapter on creating your own family Haggadah! [Incidentally, if you ever go to Cody's Books in Berkeley at this time of year, you will see a display of over 300 different texts and lots of Passover-related things to buy.] I was unhappy to see that the food dishes selected by some of the local groups make no provision for vegetarians, and I would venture that others are using similar menus. Just as there are many variations in the Haggadot, including some for vegetarians, there are many variations on the foods that may be served. One Haggadah for vegetarians is called "The Haggadah for the Liberated Lamb", Micah press, 1988. In this first vegetarian Haggadah, not just the Israelites, but the lamb as well is liberated. This haggadah has extensive notes, recipes and graphics. For vegetarians who are vegan and eat no animal products, there is "No Cholesterol Passover Recipes", by Debra Wasserman and Charles Stahler, Vegetarian Resource Group, P.O. Box 1463, Baltimore, MD 21203, $9. It contains over 100 vegetarian Passover recipes. Here are a couple: SWEET AND SOUR CABBAGE SOUP (Serves 6-8) 1 small head cabbage (red and/or green), shredded 1 apple, grated 1 onion, chopped 1/2 C raisins 2 TB oil 1 C water 1 TB matzo meal 2 TB vinegar 1 TB sugar or other sweetener 2 tsp. salt Saute onions and cabbage in oil. Add raisins, apples and 1/2 C water. Cook 5 minutes. In a jar, shake up matzo meal, vinegar, sweetener, salt and 1/2 C water. Add to other ingredients and cook another 10 minutes. ZUCCHINI WALNUT CASSEROLE (Serves 8) 1 onion, finely chopped 2 pounds zucchini, grated 1/4 pounds mushrooms, chopped 1 C matzo meal 3/4 C chopped walnuts Pepper and salt to taste Mix ingredients together well. Press into oiled loaf pan. Bake 45 minutes at 375 degrees. Serve hot or cold. - - - There is also a great variation in the ceremonial foods which are used during the seder ceremony before dinner. According to the Talmud, a roasted beet may be substituted for the shank bone. Many vegans (vegetarians who eat no animal products) use a new potato instead of an egg. Potatos were also used by Ashkenzim at times when no green vegetables were available. The common recipe for Charoset, which is said to represent the mortar used in buildings in Egypt, is apples, nuts, wine and cinnamon. But look at these mouth-watering alternatives I received: - - - From: BenoniBoy@aol.com Subject: Great Charoset recipes Dear Ted: Try these versions of Charoset. They will keep your kids busily enjoying themselves making them, and will delight your family and seder friends. The Venetian, Israeli, and Surinam are terrific, and the Persian one is sure to get everyone's attention - just check out the ingredients. Venetian: Chestnut paste, Chopped dates, Chopped figs, poppy seeds, walnuts, almonds, pine nuts (optional - they're expensive) orange rind, golden raisins, dried apricots, brandy, honey. Sephardic: Dates, dried apricots, apples, walnuts, sweet red wine, sugar. Yemenite: Dates, figs, sesame seeds, hot chili peppers Israeli: Apples, bananas, peanuts, orange juice, orange rind, lemon juice, lemon rind, cinnamon, sugar, sweet red wine. Egyptian: Raisins, dates, sugar, walnuts or pecans, water. Surinam: Coconut, walnuts, almonds, sugar, cinnamon, raisins, dried apples, dried prunes, dried apricots, dried pears, cherry jam, sweet red wine. Persia: Diced dates, unsalted pistachios, almonds, golden raisins, diced apples, pomegranate, orange, banana, sweet red wine, cider vinegar, cayenne (!), ground cloves, cardamon, cinnamon, black pepper. - - - There are differences in whether or not rice is considered OK: Ted, One big difference that I know is rice. My wife is Ashkenazi [Eastern European] and her family consider rice Hametz [capable of fermentation and therefore not for Passover]. I am Mizrahi and in my family rice was a Passover treat ... Our custom now is to follow the rules of the house. There are also some differences in the Plate arrangement. Potato and salt water were never part of the deal in my oriental family. There are also some differences in the interpretation of Karpas. Borsht and Matza ball soup are Ashkenazi traditions. I make the Haroset blending walnuts, bananas, lemon juice dipped apples, dates, raisins, a little fresh squeezed orange juice and wine. This is the true reason to look forward to Passover ... Judah Ari-Gur - - - From: Yonah Wolf Organization: Polytechnic University, New York Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:15:22 GMT Subject: Re: Is rice allowed on Passover? If I'm not mistaken, Rice is what is considered "Kitnios" which are beans and grains which can be made into bread-like foods. Therefore for those who eat "kitnios" (i.e. Sefardic and Yemenite Jews) Rice is okay to eat on Passover, if you are Ashkenazic by descent, then Rice is a no-no. - - - - Some other differences: Ted, >What foods are traditional with oriental and Sephardic jews? Sheep, Lamb with rice etc. The Ashkenazi seder makes use of foodstuffs that could be stored in the "root cellar" over the winter, Apples, nuts, potatoes, horseradish root, beets, onions etc. since Eastern Europe is still frozen. Orientals and Sephardic Jews use more fresh grown vegetables, lettuce, celery etc. (in Europe the "original" lettuce was replaced by horseradish root because it takes 70 days to grow lettuce. So, for this year's seder, it must have been planted by Feb 5th to be available). danny - - - - [This message comes from Israel] Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 04:36:17 +0300 From: mskerem (yitzchak kerem) Message-Id: <9504060136.AA51111@pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> To: tshapin@biivax.dp.backman.com Dear Ted, I am a historian on Sephardic Jewry. I edit a monthly issue via e-mail on Sephardic Jewry. About 2-3 years ago we had special on Sephardic cookbooks. For list of back issues send mail to listserver@israel.nysernet.org You can look in Herbert Dobrinsky's "A Treasury of Sephardic Laws and Customs". For example they'll eat lettuce for bitter herbs. Meat patties made out of leek, Haroset made out of dates and wine, much different sweets and baked goods. Sometimes they will eat rice. Eat kitniyot (beans, etc.), but search to see if there are grains... Each city has different custms and food. You want to look for custom of Judeo-Spanish speakers. They differ from Orientals or Diverse Syrian groups either of Spanish origin (from Aleppo) or the Judeo-Arabic Jews of SDamascus. Yitzchak kerem - - - end - - - [ Part 2.169: "Re: Seder Survey (fwd)" ] Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 10:33:44 -0500 From: "Sherman M. Kaplan" To: Walter Hellman Subject: Re: Seder Survey >Hello All, > I think it would be interesting and useful to hear how various >communities are doing the Passover seder. Here are some questions: > >1. Where are you holding your seder? > >we have a group of friends who rotate for the holidays. we are the only admitted secular Jews in teh group. Pesach is always at a friend's house. They are Conservative, Kosher and vegetarian. They are not much interested in my view that god is a myth, so it is best for me to go along just for the ride. >2. What hagaddah are you using? How does it differ from a > traditional hagaddah? > It is a traditional haggadah...and, I am looking for advice. When it is my turn to read, and reference is made to god, I am uncomfortable with what I consider to be hypocracy to just go along. On the other hand, I do not want to offend anyone, yet by going along, my principles are offended. It's a dilemma. In the past I have passed on reading, then on urging of my wife (somewhat less involved in the philosophy of the thing), I go with the flow so as not to make waves. I suspect that is what I will do this year, though some advice would be helpful. Thanks. > >3. How long do you expect your seder to last? > We read throught he entire haggadah which takes aboout 1:15 to 1:30 hours...the meal goes another hour or so, and the post meal blessing add about 20 minutes. > >4. How are you handling the food arrangements? > Teh hostess will do most of the cooking; guests will bring things so long as they are strictly Kosher and Pesadich. The meal is also exclusively vegetarian. This raises an interesting point since the seder plate does not include a shank bone. I do not understand how our religious hosts are comfortable with such a violation. It's just another example of cafateria religion, I guess. > >5. How much Hebrew is in the seder? > some blessings, the four questions and post dinner zimerot > >6. Children's role? > Only one young child will be present. She is 8. > >7. Are you charging? If so, how much? > we rotate holidays, so there is no charging > >8. Anything else others might be interested in? > > > Thanks. Please identify your community in your response! > Sherman Kaplan, Highland Park, IL > > Walter Hellman >hellman@teleport.com Internet Public Access User Hillsboro, Oregon USA > > > > [ Part 2.170: "Passover (fwd)" ] Date: 12 Apr 1995 14:36:31 U From: Barbara Griss To: SHJ Subject: Passover ***from*** Barbara Griss, Information Specialist/Reference Librarian National Jewish Center for Immunology & Respiratory Medicine/Medical Library 1400 Jackson St., Denver, CO 80206 phone: (303) 398-1482; fax: (303) 270-2149; e-mail:grissb@njc Greetings from Colorado, ...fun to hear from people regarding Passover. And, since I am a vegetarian, I loved all those ideas....thanks Ted. I access my email from work, so I don't have time to go into too much detail regarding what the CSHJ is doing for Passover, other than we are getting together for our 4th year. We probably will have about 45 people and we have it at the Universalist Unitarian Chruch....potluck style...using Rabbi Wine's Hagaddah and a tape from one of their seders (fun to hear him sing (^-^)) Within a few weeks, I will be able to access my email at work through my computer at home (I'll have a direct connect to the Internet which will save me from having to deal with commercial services and their fees). At that time I hope to be able to participate a bit more on this listserve. I really think there is great potential for our movement with this means of communication. Best regards to everyone and have a great Passover!!! Shalom, Barb [ Part 2.171: "Re: Seder Survey (fwd)" ] Date: Wed, 12 Apr 95 16:28:05 WST From: "Averbach, Susan" To: Walter Hellman Subject: Re: Seder Survey ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Seder Survey Author: Walter Hellman at Internet-Mail Date: 4/11/95 6:46 PM Hello All, I think it would be interesting and useful to hear how various communities are doing the Passover seder. Here are some questions: 1. Where are you holding your seder? We hold our Seder at Humanitarian Hall in San Francisco 2. What hagaddah are you using? How does it differ from a traditional hagaddah? We've combined a number of humanistic hagaddahs and added our own material. We sing alot, too. We always include the Partisan Hymn (we sing this in Yiddish and in English), Aliyahu, Dyanu, Hinay Matov, Shalom Chaverim, Chad Gadya (without the Holy One verse). That's all I can remember off the top of my head--I'm at work and don't have the hagadah in front of me). We have no theistic references. 3. How long do you expect your seder to last? At least two hours 4. How are you handling the food arrangements? caterer 5. How much Hebrew is in the seder? mostly in the songs--Hebrew and English; Yiddish and English 6. Children's role? very small. I think our average age is 65+ 7. Are you charging? If so, how much? $25 for members, $15 for children under 12, $35 for non-members 8. Anything else others might be interested in? Thanks. Please identify your community in your response! I'm writing about SHJ in Northern California. Sorry for the short answers but I'm at work and too busy to elaborate. Susan Averbach Walter Hellman hellman@teleport.com Internet Public Access User Hillsboro, Oregon USA [ Part 2.172: "Re[2]: Seder Survey (fwd)" ] Date: Thu, 13 Apr 95 07:38:02 WST From: "Averbach, Susan" To: Walter Hellman Subject: Re[2]: Seder Survey ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Seder Survey Author: Walter Hellman at Internet-Mail Date: 4/12/95 7:31 PM Happy Passover! Thanks for the very interesting responses to the Seder Survey. It's time to put my answers where my questions are (so to speak). Here's what Humanistic Jews of Greater Portland (Oregon) will be doing: > > 1. Where are you holding your seder? > At the Valley Conference Center in Beaverton, OR. They have been very willing to accomodate our special needs. > > 2. What hagaddah are you using? How does it differ from a > traditional hagaddah? We went through every hagaddah we could find and made up our own. There are no references to the supernatural although we do tell the story of the Exodus, saying that although the story has been mythologized, the basic theme foreshadowed many subsequent Jewish experiences. The format of the hagaddah is traditional...the Four Children even make an appearance...but the whole tone is humanistic > > 3. How long do you expect your seder to last? Probably about 2 hours with the meal > 4. How are you handling the food arrangements? > This is our first catered year. We discussed having small seders at various homes with the same hagaddah, but, in the end, decided that this was a time for all to be together. > > 5. How much Hebrew is in the seder? Some of the blessings are in Hebrew. "Children who can and all adults" will attempt transliterated 4 Questions as a reading. > 6. Children's role? We have just started our Childrens' Education program and so childrens' role will be somewhat limited this year although the seder will be fully open to children. We are working on childrens' songs. > > 7. Are you charging? If so, how much? > $15 for members,(less for children), $18 non-members > > 8. Anything else others might be interested in? We're expecting about 70 people. Songs will be done both by the whole group (Hiney Ma Tov, Dayenu, Shalom Chaverim, Eliyahu Hanavi, Let My People Go, Hatikva) and by The HJ Singers (Praise The Light, L'Chi Lach, Adir Hu). I'm especially excited about "Praise the Light." I just love the tune to Shalom Aleichem but was uncomfortable with the Hebrew once I learned the translation. This is a real problem! At any rate, I worked hard to put English words which had more meaning for me to the tune while still trying to keep the flavor of what I felt from the Hebrew (before I knew what it meant!). Anyway, our seder will be the "coming out" for the new version. Can we have a copy of your version of Praise the Light? - including the music? I'll send you a stamped, self-addressed envelope if you give me your address. Susan Averbach SHJ Northern California > > Walter Hellman > hellman@teleport.com Internet Public Access User Hillsboro, Oregon USA > > > hellman@teleport.com Internet Public Access User Hillsboro, Oregon USA [ Part 2.173: "Passover email (fwd)" ] Date: 13 Apr 1995 12:08:01 U From: Barbara Griss To: SHJ Subject: Passover email ***from*** Barbara Griss, Information Specialist/Reference Librarian National Jewish Center for Immunology & Respiratory Medicine/Medical Library 1400 Jackson St., Denver, CO 80206 phone: (303) 398-1482; fax: (303) 270-2149; e-mail:grissb@njc Hi everyone, I accidentally lost Norman Rosenblatt's Passover message.....too quick with my delete finger. If someone has saved it, would you mind forwarding it to me? Thanks! (I'm trying to save these ideas for next year's possibilities) Barb [ Part 2.174: "Reply to Passover Survey (fwd)" ] Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 16:28:36 -0400 From: LuciaB183@aol.com To: hellman@teleport.com, hj@teleport.com Subject: Reply to Passover Survey This is Lucie Brandon replying to the request for info about our Passover for the Norther California Chapter of SHJ. We are renting a hall (called Humanities Hall) in San Francisco and having a catered meal. The cost is $25 for members and $35 for guests, $15 for children under 12. Our celebrations committee wrote a Humanist Hagaddah, with no mention of a supernatural powere or any miracles. The committee updates it every year to keep it current. It contains about 10% in Hebrew that is transliterated and and translated. Many of the songs are sung in both Hebrew or Yidish and English (where possible)and always translted. The songs are led by our own chorus which sings oin our Chabbat celebrations and all or holiday functions. We have few members with children, so their part is limited to reading the four questions and hunting for the ofikoman. Every year we seem to have exactly60 people but they aren't necessarily the same 60 people . This year we have a special treat in the Yaakov Malkin, the dean of the International Institute o Secular Humanistic Judaism, Jeruslem,Israel, will speak on"What Passover Means to Humanistic Jews" Have a good Passover. Lucie [ Part 2.175: "Reply to Passover Survey (fwd)" ] Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 16:28:36 -0400 From: LuciaB183@aol.com To: hellman@teleport.com, hj@teleport.com Subject: Reply to Passover Survey